Like a hall of mirrors, we are all looking to find our way through a cast of multiple reflections; pondering where is true north, and what is mirage seeking to fool us. Something each and everyone of us struggle with, whether we are conscious of it or not, thankfully, there are still Rock-n-Roll bands out there like Nothing More inviting us to dig a little bit deeper beneath the surface.
A group of friends who have been working together for over twenty years, first finding their way as an independent act, before eventually breaking into the mainstream back in 2014 with songs like “This Is the Time (Ballast)” and “Mr. MTV,” it quickly became evident they had something worth listening to. Full of blood, sweat, and tears, their impassionate approach to music was impossible to ignore, and three years later Nothing More found themselves the recipients of not one, but three Grammy nominations.
An inspiring story of how hard work, believing in yourself, and a vision pays off, now in 2024 Nothing More are largely considered one of the most highly regarded bands in Hard Rock/Metal. Recently releasing their powerful new album Carnal on June 28, 2024, Nothing More are as driven and focused as ever before… so, are you ready for what’s next? Excited to keep the steady motion of their momentum moving forward, Lead Singer/Lyricist Jonny Hawkins recently took some time to have an in-depth discussion about the band’s history, the intent behind the music, plus a whole lot more.
Cryptic Rock – Nothing More has been on a really extraordinary journey through the decades. You began as an independent act and worked very hard for very long. The fruits of your labor paid off, because the band has attained a tremendous amount of success over the past decade. How would you describe this really incredible ride Nothing More has been on thus far?
Jonny Hawkins – It’s been pretty unbelievable. It has been a dream since I was in middle school to be in a band that’s touring the world and playing to thousands of people every night. It’s amazing to reflect and see it all coming to life after all the years of hard work. I would say unbelievable. Incredible.
Cryptic Rock – Most certainly surreal and exciting. You have always been a very hands-on band as well. In fact, you are very involved in everything that goes on from the stage show and beyond, correct?
Jonny Hawkins – Absolutely. We have a DIY mindset built into us from years and years of being independent and just figuring out how to make it without anyone’s help.
Cryptic Rock – That is also something that attributes to the band’s success as well. That DIY mindset makes you strong.
Jonny Hawkins – Definitely. I think the DIY mindset can be a strength and a weakness at times. I think the strong side is that we’re very scrappy and we figure some things out. Maybe we take a more creative route than the beaten path of other artists. On the flip side, sometimes we can try to be too DIY and try to do too many things rather than hiring people. Sometimes you can get in your own way with that.
Cryptic Rock – Understood. You are so close to music, and you are clearly very passionate about what you are creating. Sometimes it is a little difficult to let go of control because you want to make sure everything is done the way you envision it.
Jonny Hawkins – Exactly. It took us a lot of years to learn that lesson, over and over. Letting go of control is okay; as long as you’re getting the right people involved. What we learned is it became more about vetting people and really learning who to trust versus always trying to control. For a few years there, we were transitioning from fully DIY to kind of a bigger organization. In that transition, the temptation was to control everything. You end up just stressing yourself out. Then the journey becomes no fun.
At the end of the day, you still want to enjoy the journey. We’ve gotten to a good place now. One example of that is the new album, Carnal, which we released on June 28th. We hired a producer named Wizard Blood who is incredible, and we couldn’t have made a better decision working with him on this album.
Cryptic Rock – This new record is a follow up to the Spirits album that came out in 2022. During an interview we conducted with Daniel Oliver back then, he alluded to that on the next album cycle, the band would consider bringing in someone to assist with production. What was that like working with someone else?
Jonny Hawkins – Yeah. It was a bit of an adjustment at first. Not everyone was quite as comfortable. Any kind of change is a little uncomfortable at first. Once we found our rhythm with him being in the process, it was way more enjoyable. I’ve produced alongside our manager, Will (Hoffman), for the last few albums. We’ve kind of co-produced the albums together.
Sometimes it was a struggle; because you’re dealing with a few other members in the band who take your thoughts and opinions as another band member rather than taking the thoughts and opinions as a producer. With a neutral third party in the room is, at least how they view it, helps things flow more and allows us not to get stuck in little battles over small things.
Cryptic Rock – Right. That is understandable. It is all a growth process and Nothing More have expanded upon what they have done with each album. You could definitely hear that you tried to push the envelope here and there in different directions.
With this record, some of the tracks feature collaborations. You have done collaborations in the past, but you’re working with I Prevail’s Eric Vanlerberghe, and obviously, Disturbed’s David Draiman. What was it like bringing in some other people to do more collaborations?
Jonny Hawkins – It was kind of exciting because, in the past, we opened up for some collaborations here and there, but not nearly as much. It was fun, honestly. I think it was cool to see who would be interested and just kind of see them bring their own flavor to the table.
It was such an honor to have someone like David Draiman; who’s been such a legend in the genre, singing on our songs. I had someone show me Disturbed when I was in middle school. To think that he’s singing on one of my songs now, it’s kind of surreal.
Cryptic Rock – That has to be amazing when people you grew up listening to are all of sudden working with you. Each Nothing More album brings a different flavor too. You have not repeated yourself on any of the albums.
One thing that has been consistent is the passionate approach to the songs. There are a lot of really strong, heavy, introspective topics about humanity in general, who we are, what we are doing, and where we are going in Nothing More’s songs.
Jonny Hawkins – Definitely. We’re a very conscious Rock/Metal band. I’m always interested in what’s going on in the world, what’s going on in our culture, what’s going on in our psyche. I just love reflecting and analyzing all that stuff and trying to bring that to the music in a way that doesn’t feel preachy, politically ideological, or anything that’s too narrow. We try to bring it and just let it inspire the music, but let the music really lead the way.
Cryptic Rock – As a lyricist and singer, you lay the information out as you see it and let people develop their own opinion.
Jonny Hawkins – Yeah. That’s still the goal. In regards to the music and stuff like that, I’ll get opinionated here and there individually. I definitely have my own point of view on the world and everything. In regards to the music and what Nothing More is, it’s really just laying it out there and letting people make up their own minds. We’re not trying to really tell anybody what to think. We’re more questioning how they think.
Cryptic Rock – Right, and that sort of constructive thought is fantastic. During the Spirit album you developed a test which offered ideas on what personality types individuals may be, correct?
Jonny Hawkins – Yeah. Exactly. That was a culmination of two years of work and a lot of reflection over the course of our journey as a band. It’s going to develop more into the future as well, even with this album, Carnal.
We’re talking about doing a trilogy album set where Spirits would be one of the three. Carnal being the second, and it’s a more animalistic album. Your carnal nature is much more your grounded, emotional, instinctual, animalistic side of you. Then I’ll lead into probably a third album that’s in the same kind of theme and thought space. The Spirits Test really kicked it all off, and we’re going to keep rolling with it.
Cryptic Rock – That is extremely fascinating. It is great to see artists like yourselves who are stimulating people to think a little bit more. Sometimes stuff in the mainstream could be very much on the surface, but Nothing More has bundles of substance.
Let’s talk about the context of the music. You have a conviction in what you are saying, which sticks with the listener a little bit more; because you could feel that you are very sincere about what you are conveying. Whether it be the broad range of emotion – anger, sadness, exhilaration, hope – you can feel it. Really leaving it all out there, what is it like for you to bring these songs to the stage in a live setting?
Jonny Hawkins – It’s honestly a very healthy feeling and kind of healing for me. It was during COVID when everything went away. We couldn’t play live shows and tour. It was in those two years that I really learned how important it was for me to vent like that on stage. It’s almost like scream therapy or something where me really letting it all out became kind of a breathing process for me psychologically and emotionally. When it was taken away, I really realized how important it was.
Now, I definitely don’t take it for granted as much anymore. It really does help me along the way not be a crazy person who’s a menace to society or something. I think it’s just like a very healthy outlet for me.
Cryptic Rock – Everyone needs that outlet; whether it be someone like yourself who is creating the music and performing it, or just someone who is consuming the music. Music is the outlet for everyone. It is a healthy outlet to have that release. After all, there are quite a few things that can create stress, anger, anxiety in our world. We are surrounded by it constantly.
Jonny Hawkins – That is very true. We are surrounded by it. People finding their healthy outlet is huge. I was very fortunate to find it when I was younger.
Cryptic Rock – That is a great thing. Some people are not fortunate to find it at all.
Jonny Hawkins – I’m really happy to be doing it. Like I said, COVID really taught me how much I am thankful to be doing this. Really happy to get back out there on this new album and hopefully be that vent for other people as well.
Cryptic Rock – That is great. You speak about how COVID taught you a lot, and it truly taught us all a lot about ourselves and others. Just backtracking to Spirits, that album reflected on what we were all feeling at the time. Looking at everything from the outside looking in, we saw a lot of some of the worst parts of humanity come out during that time. It seems like certain things in our world have not been mended since; meaning that there are certain aspects that came out of COVID that are here to stay. For example, virtual doctor’s visits, virtual classrooms, takeout food and grocery deliveries on a regular basis.
Jonny Hawkins – Yeah. I mean, I think some of the things I enjoy that came out of COVID. Some of the things I agree, are kind of ridiculous. One example is during the process of COVID, the band and I were forced to work from a distance a lot of times because we all lived in different cities and traveled and all of it was just kind of difficult and frustrating. We really learned a lot of new skills in regards to self-producing and recording ourselves and putting things together by sending each other stuff over the internet. There was kind of a cool mobile working skill set that I think came out of it; even though it was one of the most frustrating albums we ever made because of it.
Sometimes just being in the same room and having that immediate instinctual kind of emotional feedback from people… it’s just a lot faster and more efficient than working mobile. I do think the mobile work skills that we all individually developed became kind of an asset moving forward; because sometimes we’re not together and we can still make progress now in an efficient way.
Cryptic Rock – Everything is what you make of it, right? For example, you can make a broad statement and say the internet has done nothing but bad for the world, but that is not necessarily true. The internet is what you make of it and there is positive you could do with it. In the end, it is just a tool.
Jonny Hawkins – 100%. Yeah. Definitely is. It’s got good and it’s got bad. There’s pros and cons. There are trade-offs. This is with pretty much everything in life, I think.
Cryptic Rock – It is about finding that balance. Again, going back to your music, that is kind of the message of Nothing More – finding balance and turning negatives into positives.
So, you have been out on the road again quite a bit this year. You are continuing touring through 2024, but historically, the band fit in a lot of different places. You have toured with Wage War, Godsmack, Shinedown, etc. Do you enjoy being able to play in all these different arenas, with different types of bands, in different subgenres?
Jonny Hawkins – Absolutely. Yeah. I get a little bored when we play with the same style of music too much. That’s why we’ve always ridden the line between Rock and Metal. I don’t think we’re really one or the other. So, we do get to lean into our harder side or our softer side depending on who we’re touring with. It kind of keeps it interesting and fun for us.
Cryptic Rock – It also exposes the band to a broader audience too; because there are people there who may have not listened to Nothing More. It seems like a lot of people stick with what they know, but it is great to have an open mind.
We touched on your lyrics some, and you do point out a lot of things that are going on in our world. As we move forward, it seems like everyone is talking about artificial intelligence. Again, it can be a tool. Do you think that maybe some people are being shortsighted in freely handing over too much control to machines? What are your thoughts on that?
Jonny Hawkins – There should absolutely be a healthy level of caution with that kind of stuff. If the history of humanity has taught us anything, it is that we often go too far and then dial things back. I think Elon Musk pointed out that with AI – it’s not the thing you want to go too far; because you can’t dial it back. Once the genie’s out of the bottle, per se, it may be impossible to dial it back if we step too far.
Now, granted, I think our understanding of consciousness is actually way more limited than we tend to think. Just talk to a neurosurgeon or look at some of the people in that field talking about it. They’re very honest about how little we know. In some ways, years might be totally off. AI may never develop like we’re fearing that it could just because our understanding of consciousness and self-consciousness is very limited.
It might be hyper-intelligent, but so far, it seems like it’s like hyper-autistic intelligence where it’s very narrowed and doesn’t seem to be able to understand context in ways that human beings can. I think right now is the most important time to start building the safeguards to, in some ways, keep it autistic in a sense.
I’m using that word autistic obviously very loosely, but I feel like it’s the closest analog I can compare it to in human consciousness. Almost like when you have a baby lion and you get it as a cub; that’s the time that’s important to train the cub and set up the boundaries of when it’s nibbling on you or biting you a little too hard you pop it a little bit or do something unpleasant where the lion learns, “Oh, I don’t do that. That’s bad,” or, “I have a bad reaction when I do that.” When it grows older and bigger, it’s not going to know that boundary.
With AI, we can’t put up boundaries in that way. Obviously, it’s a totally different beast than a baby lion. The metaphor is that now, in this developmental stage, is a really important time to build the safeguards, the boundaries, and the metaphorical port that we can pull if things get crazy.
At the end of the day, the bottleneck for AI is processing power. If we can control the processing power and we always have a handle on the on and off button, we pretty much have control there. That’s really, to me, where you build the control because I don’t think any of us know the capabilities of what it could do. We would just have to build a lot of autistic AI as watchdogs on AI in general, where they have one purpose is just to constantly be checking at hyper-speed if there’s anything dangerous happening. I don’t know, man. It’s wild. It’s wide open what could happen.
It’s almost like in the 1940s when they were talking about dropping the atomic bomb. They didn’t even know if they were going to light the atmosphere on fire. They just didn’t know because they had never done an explosion that big before. It’s frightening, but it’s exciting. I don’t know. It’s weird. It’s all over the place.
Cryptic Rock – Absolutely. What you are saying makes a lot of sense, and looking at things in the long term. What about from a short-term standpoint? This is the negative side; because it seems like people are relying upon technologies more rather than think critically and use their analog skills. It can be very detrimental to children who are still developing those critical thinking skills and those analog skills. Many people, of all age demographics, are losing the ability to do things with their hands, but instead are letting a machine make those decisions for them.
Jonny Hawkins – Right. I think what’s really important in the short term, like what you’re talking about, is more the conversation around education and what we teach small, young humans to do on their own without a machine, so that if and when there’s a failure in the machine world, there’s some basic skills in place.
Even now, I think we’re already past that point where, I don’t know, maybe 90% or more of people would have a very good chance of survival if they lost the power grid and a lot of computerized processes. I don’t know. I guess they just get into the nitty-gritty where when they’re developing, yeah, they should be toying with things in the real world and kind of getting some basic skills to grapple with the real world first.
Cryptic Rock – Absolutely. It is all very frightening, and to your point, would people survive without it? Many have become so reliant upon these things. It’s troubling and all interplays with the broader picture that as humans we have lost touch with one another. It seems like there is a clear lack of communication.
Jonny Hawkins – Yeah. There’s definitely a lack of communication. We’re over-communicating via the internet. There’s so much communication that we’re not really communicating.
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