Toward the tail end of the 1980s, the Glam Metal scene had become stale. Labels kept popping out one band after another, and in truth, it started to look like it was a competition of who could be the most glamorous. Then, a band out of New Jersey emerged with a sound that was heavy, rough, raw, and sort of a punch in the face to the Hard Rock scene… that band was Skid Row. Skid Row charged out in a big way with their 1989 self-titled debut and 1991’s Slave to the Grind, which was the first Heavy Metal album to chart at number one on the Billboard 200.
Surmounting a dedicated following since that time, Skid Row is amidst its thirty-seventh year as a band in 2023 and is feeling as strong as ever. Bringing on new Vocalist Erik Grönwall, the band dug deep to write some really strong material that would become their first full-length studio album in sixteen long years. Entitled The Gang’s All Here and released in October of 2022, the album is a long time coming, but after just one listen, it is clear the wait was well worth it because Skid Row has put together something everyone is going to want to hear. Feeling rejuvenated, band co-founder Dave “Snake” Sabo recently sat down for an in-depth conversation about the history of Skid Row, their working-class attitude, writing The Gang’s All Here, and a whole lot more.
Cryptic Rock – You have been involved in Rock-n-Roll for many decades now. A co-founder of Skid Row, you would help take the band to the top of the Hard Rock world in the late ‘80s into the ‘90s. Sustaining success with Skid Row, what has your, and the band’s, journey been like?
Dave “Snake” Sabo – Well, the cool thing about my childhood – growing up in a little town called Sayreville, NJ – is I had four older brothers, and I was being raised by my mom. We had a very happy household and music was a huge part of the fabric of our everyday life. Music has been with me since I was an infant. I was exposed to all different types of music; everything from 1940s Andrew Sister’s wartime-type music to Frank Sinatra, to Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Bill Haley & the Comets, to all the Doo Wop stuff, like Little Anthony & the Imperials. Moving on from there into Motown, the Stakes Records era, R&B, and Soul, such as Otis Redding, Jerry Butler, Sam Cooke, and Aretha Franklin. All these things had such a huge impact on me, believe it or not.
At that early age, you don’t know genres, it is just music, and you either like it or you don’t. There were no barriers put up or anything, and no peer pressure, if you will, to like something or stay within a certain lane. I credit my brothers and my mom for that because it really gave me such an unbelievable education in music in general.
It became very influential in the makeup of what would become me later in life as a guitar player and songwriter. All of those influences sort of get thrown into this big pot… still to this day! The great thing is, working with Rachel, and we have been best buds and songwriting partners for thirty-seven years now, and he had a very similar upbringing with his family. We derive so much of what we contribute to the songwriting process from that upbringing and beyond.
Obviously, as you grow older, you discover different stuff; discovering the New Wave of British Heavy Metal was hugely influential on me. Then there was KISS. Experiencing KISS, not from just a musical level, but from a lyrical perspective, and the way they would market themselves, and they still do until this day, is just over the top… they always refused to be denied. That was a really big thing with us, we said, we’ve got to show people how good we are, and if they don’t buy into it, we are going to keep pounding it until they get it.
We did that in the little clubs that we would play in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and even up in Toronto. We would not be denied. Also, the music that we wrote was born from all those crazy influences, somehow coming together and somehow making sense in our feeble little brains. All that stuff was important, plus somehow, serendipitously, Rachel and I met at a record store in Toms River, NJ. Consequently, from that meeting, we put together Skid Row… and thirty-seven years later, here we are.
On October 14, 2022, we released our latest record called The Gang’s All Here. I don’t know; we are the luckiest people on earth. The audience just took to it. There is sort of a rebirth, I’m not quite sure, but the record charted in ten or eleven different countries, the United States included. That hasn’t happened in twenty-seven years! So, to be at this point in our lives as individuals and collectively as a band is just really humbling. I find myself feeling very fortunate to be in the position that we’re in and still have this band as a vehicle to be able to express ourselves. Not that many people are this lucky that they get to do this for so long.
We didn’t even think back in the day that we would have this sort of longevity. I will be honest with you: when we made our first record, and this goes for every band that makes their first record, you always dream of selling a million records and becoming The Rolling Stones, etc. However, what was prevalent in our minds was we were just hoping that we could sell enough records in order to make another record. We just wanted to play music for a living, and whatever we had to do in order to make that happen, we would do.
We’ve been lucky enough to sell a pretty good number of records and be sort of known throughout the world. We’re a hard-working band, and we worked hard to build a reputation for giving it everything we had every night on stage. We put on a great show that people go to, “Man, I’m so happy I went to that; I had such a great time.” We’re a very positive energy band. We look at everything from a realistic view but a positive standpoint. There are positives and negatives to everything, and we chose to focus more on the upside of things. When you come to a Skid Row show, there is a lot of energy, a lot of smiles, and a lot of people joining in with the energy of the band, and vice versa. It’s a community of people together, and we treat it as such. We take a lot of pride in tha,t and it’s a lot of fun. There is nothing better than seeing someone in your audience singing back the lyrics to your songs. That’s really phenomenal that we could be a part of writing something that has affected that many people; that never gets lost on us.
So, to answer your question, which has been a very long-winded answer, is that it has been an incredible ride. It’s been filled with many peaks and valleys… and I’m sure that is going to continue. The trick to it is, and I think what has worked well for us, is we were raised in a blue-collar family. We were lower middle class, didn’t have a lot of money, ate a lot of macaroni & cheese and tuna fish (I still do because I love it), and we were raised to be grateful and humble. We were raised that anything good that comes to you in life is a gift; it’s not something that is owed to you, you have to work hard for it, and it’s a gift.
Life is often not fair from your own perspective, but the truth in the matter is, if you work really hard and keep a positive focus on your goals and where you want to go, chances are you are going to get there. It might not be exactly the way you pictured it, and it might be a completely different route than you envisioned, but ultimately you will somehow get there.
Cryptic Rock – That hardworking, humble attitude is clearly one of the key components to Skid Row’s success. Let’s talk a little bit more about the history of Skid Row. When the band hit, you were a breath of fresh air to a Hard Rock/Metal scene that had sort of become a derivative of itself. You came out hard and heavy, and there was no glam around you guys. That was a turning point on the scene at the time.
Dave “Snake” Sabo – Well, I think our environment played a big part in that. Again, I think serendipity comes into play. How do I end up going to work in a music store that is 90 minutes from where I live because no one would hire me in my own area of New Jersey? (Laughs) I didn’t want to cut my hair, plus I didn’t want to adhere to certain rules that are indoctrinated into corporate society and people who work within that bubble. The music store was literally 90 minutes away, and I had to take two buses to get there. Sure enough, that is where I met Rachel Bolin. Life works strangely, but there was the beginning of something. We knew it, too.
I have never been afraid of engaging myself with strangers that I see that have something in them. I looked at Rachel when he first walked into the music store and immediately found out this guy was a rock star. I found out he played bass, and that was great because I play guitar. I found out he was the main songwriter in his band, that was great, because I was also in my band. We became friendly. I used to network quite a bit in Manhattan, so I got to be friendly with a lot of people that were involved in the music and entertainment business; people whose names were known. As it turned out, Rachel and I hit it off. In due time, we said, “Maybe we should sit down and try writing songs together.” We did, and it sounded good for a first shot together.
All of these things considered, because of being in New Jersey, we never even thought (like a lot of bands did) of moving to LA. We viewed that as our competition. We thought – we’re not going to go out there and be an LA; we’re New Jersey, man! There’s a thing in the water in New Jersey; there really is. (Laughs) For some reason, we were just incredibly proud of where we came from.
I live on Long Island now, and I still talk to my friends that I grew up in high school with. That is the thing; we just have a lot of cool things in New Jersey, not a lot of other places that I know of. There is so much loyalt,y and everyone keeps each other grounded. There is no getting away with ego; you’ll get pounded into the ground by your buddies. So, any success that we had was all bred from this very humble, hard work ethic where we wanted to be successful on our own terms.
When we started, we were in a garage with a propane heater at Rachel’s parents’ house. Let me tell you, from December into March, it’s pretty damn cold in that cement garage! It didn’t matter, though; that’s what you do… this is your gig. You have a day job, and when you are done with that, you are either going to band practice or you are going into a room with your songwriting partner, start writing songs and create something from nothing. That is the amazing thing… to create something from nothing. And then to have people like it, holy crap! The first part of it is bringing it into the garage, playing it for everyone, they like it, and they start adding their personality to it. You watch this thing grow from nothing.
There have been plenty of times Rachel will play something for each other and say, “Eh, I don’t know.” Most of the time, we are pretty good at editing ourselves, though, and knowing what might appeal to other guys in the band. It is very much a selfish act, though, because you’re looking to please yourself. I cannot predict what people are going to like, so you write for what pleases you genuinely. Then, you hope that it connects. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. But when it does, what a feeling!
We were really proud of being from New Jersey. There was a great music scene at that time in New Jersey with a lot of great bands and artists in different genres. We all supported each other. That is one of the things I loved, which I don’t think was the case out in LA, where people sabotaged each other’s shows and such… we were never about that.
Before a show on a Monday night, playing to a hundred people, I would be backstage getting taught guitar by Dave DiPietro from T.T. Quick, Ken Dubman from Prophet, or Vito Bratta (who was in a band called Dreamer), who went on to White Lion, or Zakk Wylde who was in a band called Zyris at the time. We were all in it together, that was the beauty of it. We all wanted to see each other become successful, and we were willing to help each other. I loved that! It was so indicative of the New Jersey ethos. That environment played a big part in helping shape the band into what it was in 1986 and how it defined its form as it went on.
We also had a lot of great input from friends who were already successful in the music business, such as Jon Bon Jovi and Doc McGhee. Jon has been a friend of mine since I was ten or eleven years old; we grew up in the same little town of Sayreville, NJ. He always said, “Dude, if you could put together a great band, I will help you out in any way that I can.” He stayed true to his word because we put together a really good band, and with his help and Richie Sambora’s opinions on the songs, it really helped us grow as songwriters. That’s when we first realized good isn’t good enough. Everybody can be good… but can you be great? Then you think – okay, and the dilemma is, how exactly do we go about that? It’s just examining your songs and saying, “Can we make this better? Let’s be honest with ourselves.”
That meticulousness made us better as songwriters and performers. Good is not good enough. Good is not going to get you out of the clubs in New Jersey. Good is not going to get you on world tours. Good is not going to sell you records. That was instilled in our heads from the very beginning by people whom we still respect immensely and who we are still friends with.
Cryptic Rock – It is great to hear about how strong that community was around you. The love and care you put into the music shine through on the new Skid Row album, The Gang’s All Here. This is Skid Row’s first studio album in sixteen long years, plus the first record with Erik Grönwall on vocals. What was the writing and recording process like?
Dave “Snake” Sabo – It was a labor of love. It was sort of a start-and-stop type of thing. To be honest, we started writing songs slowly around 2017 and 2018. We thought we had some pretty cool stuff, and we were building it; obviously, some stuff was better than others. Then we go into the pandemic. We were working through the early stages of that, but then it got where everybody had to isolate. It got beyond what everyone imagined it would be. It was basically… you will cease and desist creating. (Laughs)
That was a tough period for me. I didn’t thrive creatively at all, for whatever reason. A lot of people were able to, and I’m very envious of those people. We got a little bit done via Zoom, but after all these years, Rachel and I realized that when we write together, we write better in a room with guitars and a couple of notepads. We have these amazing studios, but it all comes down to an acoustic guitar, a Radio Shack dictaphone, and hopefully some good ideas.
Once we started coming out of the pandemic, we started up the record again, but it wasn’t working out. We thought the spirit and intent were there, but it just wasn’t sounding right to us. Around that same time, Rachel met Nick Raskulinecz, whose resume speaks for itself; he’s worked with everyone from Foo Fighters to Halestorm, to Mastodon, to Alice in Chains. He is just an incredibly gifted human being, a great guy, and a Jersey guy! He lives in Nashville, as does Rachel, and they met through some mutual friends.
So, Rachel called me and told me Nick Raskulinecz says he wants to produce a Skid Row record. We are both cynical and think – he’s just being nice. Rachel met him again, and Nick said it again, “I’m serious; I really want to do a Skid Row record.” We thought it was weird because we were at a crossroads with what we had written thus far. At some point, we had to deliver the record to the label, and we weren’t even close. So, we said, “Maybe we should take him up on it and call his bluff.” And he was all about it!
We all got on a Zoom call, and we said, “Ok, dude, tell us what you want to do.” He said, “I know your band inside and out. I’ve been a fan since the beginning; I’ve seen you play a bunch of times. Here is my opinion: through the years, you guys have gotten away, as it is normal, from the essence of what made you guys start the band and what inspired you guys to create those first batch of records.” We said, “Yeah, I get that.” He said, “I’m not saying you have to be twenty-one-year-old Rachel Bolin or Snake Sabo, but you need to get back to the essence of Skid Row. I want to make the quintessential Skid Row record. I want to make a record that people will say, that’s Skid Row!” We thought it sounded amazing and loved the idea of it.
We knew this, but it was good hearing this from an outside opinion. As your career progresses and you create and release more music, a lot of times, the idea in your brain is that you want to do something different than you did previously. So, by the time you are thirty-five years down the line, it could be quite different from where you began. Sometimes that’s great, and sometimes, for us, it wasn’t so great. The great thing was it got us to this point where we met Nick Raskulinecz where he is bestowing his wisdom upon us. We made a big decision that we were going to put our trust in Nick. In order to do that completely, we had to leave our egos in the parking lot. You can’t bring an ego in; you can’t be holding onto these songs for dear life and be afraid of change, you must let them go. You have to willingly put them in the hands of this guy, who is somewhat of a stranger, yet you feel like you’ve known him your whole life and trust that he will do right by you.
We got in a live room, put on our guitars, cranked the amps, the drums were as loud as shit, and he said, “I want to deconstruct and rebuild everything.” We said, “We’ve never done this… this is awesome!” If there was something we felt truly and creatively strong about, we would make our case for it, but over 90% of the time, it was open. He would tell us what he loved about what we did here and there. He has incredible retention and the ability to separate everybody’s instruments and remember what they are playing. From that, you go within yourself, and you realize that the person that he is looking for is this eighteen-year-old kid who pretended to be Ace Frehley, Eddie Van Halen, or Randy Rhoads… who wanted to write songs/music that maybe people would like it, but something you would want to hear and be proud of. It brought us all back to those points. Those are points where things went from just a guitarist to a guy who is becoming a songwriter and, hopefully, a well-rounded musician. Life is like an onion, and it builds layers, but at the heart of it, that is who you are as a musician. Once we had access to that emotive part of your soul again, everything started flowing.
Right around that time, when we recorded everything musically, we had a couple of songs recorded vocally, and we realized we were at another crossroads. What had happened was we had slowly been going down different paths from ZP Theart (our singer). Where we thought that paths might really converge, they didn’t; they got further distance from one another. We had to make a decision… because it wasn’t the record we heard in our heads. Without any backup plan, we just said, “We’re going to have to make a change.” We didn’t have any idea what we were going to do. We were almost done with this record… and now we were making a change? But the change was a gut instinct, and it was something that we needed to do.
It wasn’t long before we got in contact with Erik. We were very aware of him; we were aware of him when he did “18 and Life” in 2009 on Swedish Idol. We were also aware of him because his band had opened for us in Europe in 2018. We were aware of him throughout the years. We would also have people, who we really respected in business, say, “We know things are going well, but if something ever happens, there is this kid in Stockholm.” We were aware of him. Then we went online and watched a bunch of YouTube videos seeing him singing everything from Van Halen, Iron Maiden, to Rush, Queen, and Journey… and we just thought, wow!
Rachel reached out to Erik via Instagram and said, “We wrote a couple of songs, and we would love to hear your voice on them… would you be interested?” Erik sent us back “The Gang’s All Here” within 24 hours, and when we got it, we said, “Holy shit, this is a game changer.” We thought, did we just get this lucky at this stage in our careers? Of course, being cynical, we sent more music, and it was great! So, we got on a Zoom call with him and asked him, “How do you feel about being the new singer of Skid Row?” He put his head down, and we thought he was going to say no because he had other obligations and he also had very serious health issues, which he has overcome. He lifted his head up and said, “I would be honored to.”
I neglected to say that we had a residence booked with The Scorpions for less than a month away… and we were just hiring a new singer that we never met or ever jammed with! (Laughs) That’s not the way you do things or not the responsible way you do things, but we were flying by the seat of our pants, to be honest. He did eight of the ten songs that were on the record remotely from Stockholm with Nick in Nashville; then we flew him over to The States for The Scorpions residence four days before the first show; we rehearsed for two days, took a day off, and played our first show. It was just one of those things where you go; how does this work?
The best thing that happened was we really got along. It was really clear it was going to work when he flew to The States, where I met him at JFK airport and spent a couple of hours with him before we flew to Vegas. We were like old friends who hadn’t seen each other in forever. We immediately started laughing, hugged each other, and went to the bar to have a beer. I called Rachel and said, “Dude, we have a problem. He can’t hear me, but this guy is an asshole.” Rachel said, “What are you talking about!” I said, “I’ve never seen a dude with a bigger ego than this dude. It’s all about him, how he can make his star shine brighter, and what’s in it for him.” Then said, “Are you kidding?” Then he heard Erik and me laughing and he said, “You’re an asshole!” (Laughs) I then told him, seriously, this guy is great; you are going to love him.
Then we got to Vegas, met up with the band, and it was the same thing, hugs all around, etc. We have the same sense of humor, the same musical influences, and the same mindset. He has an incredibly positive outlook on life because he is a cancer survivor. He realizes how close he came to not being able to sing as his livelihood. He takes every day as an absolute gift and thus inspires us to do the same. It’s been an incredibly enjoyable year. We are already writing songs for the next record… which we’ve never done.
Cryptic Rock – Wow, it sounds like everything worked out in an amazing way. It seems like this is a partnership that could last for a long time.
Dave “Snake” Sabo – Yes, I’m very optimistic, but the cynical side of me is very cautious… only because a lot of life has lived in these old bones. We’re really blessed and lucky to be where we are right now and to work with Erik. It has breathed new life into our band. Erik has such an infectious personality; he is so ongoing, and he is so hard not to like. I think the audience has really picked up on that and is developing a connection with him that coincides with the connection they already have with the history of our music. Thus, it allows people to have an open mind about our new music.
The cool thing about our new record is that this record could fit right in between our self-titled debut album (1989) and Slave to the Grind (1991). It doesn’t seem like a stretch between those three records, it feels like they all work together. The only reason I say that, besides the feeling I get when I play those songs, is in a live situation, sometimes you create music for a record, and it sounds great on the album, but when you go into a live situation, it just doesn’t work. We have had that happen throughout our history, but with this record, we can go out and put “The Gang’s All Here” right after “Making a Mess,” and it works. Or, we can go out and put “Time Bomb” after “The Threat,” and it works.
It’s really cool that we’re fortunate enough to have created a record that doesn’t jolt people out of their seats from the unfamiliarity, and it feels like it works within the context of everything else that we’ve created.
Cryptic Rock – That is exciting to hear. You also are touring in support of the album with Buckcherry, which is a great bill.
Dave “Snake” Sabo – Yes, Buckcherry are friends of ours, and they are a great band. With everything being on the rise with inflation, including fuel prices, equipment prices, gear rental, lights, etc… everything has gone up so much. That said, we are doing our best to keep ticket prices as low as we can so everybody is happy.
The billing itself is great. I think people will walk away from these shows feeling like they got more than their money’s worth. That’s always the goal. We’re only there to perform because of the loyalty of the audience. We’re keenly aware of that. without the audience, we don’t do this. We are aware of it, so we pay respect and homage to them every night as much as we can. Buckcherry does, too; we’ve been on tour with them in Europe, and they are a ball of energy. We have to uphold our end of the bargain, but it’s a great challenge to step up every night. I love being a part of tours like this where you have another band that is a great band, who are friends of yours, and there is no adolescent crap going on. We’re both bands who have been doing this for a long time, we know how it works, and the bonus is we all get along.
Cryptic Rock – Hopefully, people get out and see this tour and hear the new album live! Last question for you. If you are a fan, what are some of your favorite Horror films?
Dave “Snake” Sabo – I am a huge Horror movie fan! I go back to Nosferatu (1929). They also put out a version with a soundtrack to Type O Negative music, which is cool.
When I was a kid, my mom would always get me these encyclopedic size books of the history of Horror. I really got dedicated to learning as much as I could about these movies. These books had great still pictures, and they had a profound impact on me. There was no internet back then and I remember feeling, I need to see this movie… how am I going to see Nosferatu? Lo and behold, one night, I saw it in the TV Guide. It was going to be on Channel Thirteen in New Jersey. I couldn’t wait! It was everything I hoped it would be. The whole movie, from start to finish, the lighting, casting, everything, made me a lifelong subscriber to the Horror genre.
I started looking for more after that. I know Thomas Edison, around 1910, made a Frankenstein movie. Also, 1920’s The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari had lighting that was really cool. Then we started getting further down the line with Tod Browning’s Freaks (1932). Then you had Lou Chaney and what he would do; there were movies like London After Midnight (1927).
What brought me into Horror also was when I was really young, part of my two older brothers’ weekly ritual was to scare the shit out of me. So, one of my memories is they would lock me in a shed for three hours; that was nice, I wasn’t traumatized from that at all. (Laughs) They would also run after me with the first Black Sabbath album cover, yelling, “They’re gonna get you, they’re gonna get you!” As they went on, it made me more resistant to being as scared… and then I got to enjoy the process more.
I also saw The Exorcist (1973) when I was a really young kid. There was also another possession movie that came out in 1974 called Beyond the Door, which I loved. Then there was Suspiria (1977), which I loved. I was going to see these movies as a ten-year-old kid, and it was so great! The,n as I grew older, I started getting into Stephen King. I remember being obsessed with It (1986), and I read it twice. Also, I loved books like The Shining (1977), and The Talisman (1984)… which is a very underrated book.
What got me most, as much as maybe the films did in the ‘70s, sometimes even more, were the commercials. The trailers were unreal, and they would show them late at night. I remember there was an interviewer by the name of David Susskind who had a late show in the New York area. During the release of all these possession movies during the ‘70s, all these people started coming out with stories of possession. I remember David Susskind late at night, and he had people on his show who were supposedly possessed. There would be this whole hour-long discussion about possession; they would show clips, and it terrified me! I thought it could really happen to an eleven-year-old kid from Sayreville. (Laughs) These movies really had that sort of impact! I was just so drawn to the genre.
I also loved Frankenstein (1931) and The Bride of Frankenstein (1935), which is underrated. Also, movies like The Golem (1915), Faust (1926), or Metropolis (1927), which was weird for its time. Then it kind of got goofy in the ‘40s and ‘50s. Don’t get me wrong, I loved it, but it took some of the edge off the movies themselves. Then, moving into the ‘60s and ‘70s, Hammer Horror was amazing… they really changed the genre. Then, around that time, movies like The Exorcist and Suspiria were coming out. That was a great time for Horror movies.
There have also been some great modern Horror movies. I thought The Conjuring (2013) and The Conjuring 2 (2016) were awesome. I thought the first Insidious was really good, too.
There were also the three camps of A Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, and Halloween… I subscribed to all of them. More so, A Nightmare on Elm Street and Halloween had a profound effect on me. The originals were just great from start to finish. There were no lows in the originals; you are an emotional roller coaster the entire time, and you are getting scared in great spots. All the things that terrify us are used brilliantly in those movies with the least amount of being contrived.
Also, The Evil Dead (1981) and Evil Dead II (1987) were awesome! Evil Dead II titters on that tightrope of terrifying and hilarious, but it’s a great balance!
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